soaks
Greenhorn
Posts: 92
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Post by soaks on Aug 22, 2008 12:45:18 GMT -4
An interesting point has been raised by Andrew Sullivan at The Atlantic Magazine: andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/08/was-mccain-tort.html
In all the discussion of John McCain's recently recovered memory of a religious epiphany in Vietnam, one thing has been missing. The torture that was deployed against McCain emerges in all the various accounts. It involved sleep deprivation, the withholding of medical treatment, stress positions, long-time standing, and beating. Sound familiar?
According to the Bush administration's definition of torture, McCain was therefore not tortured.
Cheney denies that McCain was tortured; as does Bush. So do John Yoo and David Addington and George Tenet. In the one indisputably authentic version of the story of a Vietnamese guard showing compassion, McCain talks of the agony of long-time standing. A quarter century later, Don Rumsfeld was putting his signature to memos lengthening the agony of "long-time standing" that victims of Bush's torture regime would have to endure. These torture techniques are, according to the president of the United States, merely "enhanced interrogation."
No war crimes were committed against McCain. And the techniques used are, according to the president, tools to extract accurate information. And so the false confessions that McCain was forced to make were, according to the logic of the Bush administration, as accurate as the "intelligence" we have procured from "interrogating" terror suspects. Feel safer?
Uhmmm, bit of a quandry here, torture or enhanced interrogation? |
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Post by sometimeman on Aug 22, 2008 13:56:51 GMT -4
YOU BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF!!
Posting trash like this about a war hero!
You are close to posting hate speech, inciting civil unrest and could be declared an enemy combatant!
Beside if others do it it IS torture!
And when we do it, or have it done, if the decider says it an't then, it IS NOT! So, there.
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soaks
Greenhorn
Posts: 92
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Post by soaks on Aug 22, 2008 14:42:46 GMT -4
YOU BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF!! Posting trash like this about a war hero! You are close to posting hate speech, inciting civil unrest and could be declared an enemy combatant! Beside if others do it it IS torture! And when we do it, or have it done, if the decider says it an't then, it IS NOT! So, there. I think you forgot to include the closing tag </snark>. Yeah, it's a real shame when this stuff comes back to bite you in the butt. |
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Post by sometimeman on Aug 22, 2008 15:08:05 GMT -4
Well,.. OK, may maybe we tortured a little...... now can John be a hero?
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soaks
Greenhorn
Posts: 92
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Post by soaks on Aug 22, 2008 16:04:34 GMT -4
Well,.. OK, may maybe we tortured a little...... now can John be a hero? Only if he can find the keys to all of his houses. |
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Post by sometimeman on Aug 22, 2008 18:11:57 GMT -4
Well,.........Dang!!!
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Post by bubbadebubba on Aug 23, 2008 7:13:18 GMT -4
I guess he walks funny and his arms stick out because of a birth defect huh??
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soaks
Greenhorn
Posts: 92
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Post by soaks on Aug 23, 2008 8:27:09 GMT -4
I guess he walks funny and his arms stick out because of a birth defect huh?? You'll need to ask that question of the current Administration, they're the ones redefining and splitting hairs. |
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Post by sometimeman on Aug 23, 2008 11:01:41 GMT -4
McCain is better 'en Obama but, I don;t want 'em for President,
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Post by bubbadebubba on Aug 24, 2008 6:42:21 GMT -4
well heck sometimer--If you impeach Bush and Obama is not a citizen and McCain is not worthy of being President, what u gonna do about Cheney and Pelosi(the next two in line to be President)?
And forget Paul, the nut case from Texas.
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Post by sometimeman on Aug 24, 2008 12:23:16 GMT -4
Bubba, you are not compelled to play their game.
You are in charge.
Write the person of your choice in.
And, what IF they don't win? Have you wasted your vote? No! You have exercised your choice and let the bastards know while they might have chose for thousands of others they did not choose for you!!!
Others may be compelled to vote Obama -or- McCain Not you. You have a choice.
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Post by sometimeman on Aug 24, 2008 12:27:16 GMT -4
Bubba, I went out of my way to vote for George Bush. Both Times. I bought the propaganda hook line and sinker. I am partially responsible for the greatest disaster ever to befall America. I don't feel good. I feel awful about it. I see and understand the lies the Mainstream Media feeds the people.
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Post by sometimeman on Aug 24, 2008 15:15:16 GMT -4
August 23, 2008
Ron Paul Delegates Advocate Civil Disobedience
Posted by Lew Rockwell at August 23, 2008 12:18 PM
Hardcore RP delegates to the Republican national convention hope to convince enough McCain delegates to abstain on the first ballot to deny the fascist neocon the nomination, with the hope of eventually nominating Ron. They rightly point out that, as St. Thomas Aquinas said, an unjust law is no law at all, so anyone with a conscience is not required to vote for McCain, no matter what their state government says; indeed, just the opposite.
Of course, the hardcores have absolutely no chance, since anyone the party chooses to be a McCain delegate is evil. Still, the RP guys and gals have worked their hearts out for many months, and spent lots of money they can't afford. Even though they are doomed to defeat, who can tell them not to do what they believe to be right?
Here is my only advice: the St. Paul convention, like the Denver one, is a key State-legitimizing event, with much of the power elite in attendance. They are funded by the taxpayers, and by the military-industrial-petro complex, in arrogant display. Since 9/11 especially, the conventions are totalitarian regimes in miniature (and examples of what they'd like the whole of America to look like). Their jackbooted thugs will not hesitate to gas you, taser you, beat you into a bloody pulp, and then put you into one of their animal cages for years. Do not do anything that gives them even the slighest excuse.
UPDATE from Tim Swanson: "To add insult to injury, the $100 million security detail for both conventions is also being funded by taxpayers. Why not just hold the conventions on military bases?"
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Post by bubbadebubba on Aug 25, 2008 22:00:34 GMT -4
""Bubba, I went out of my way to vote for George Bush. Both Times.""
I also, and many others; that's why he is the President.
""I am partially responsible for the greatest disaster ever to befall America. I don't feel good. I feel awful about it.""
First--The disaster was 9-11; planned even before Bush took office. He took office in Jan 2001 and those terrorists were already in the Country receiving training on how to fly a Plane.
Any President is only as good as the rest of the Government, and the Security forces of the U.S. failed in finding out they were in the Country.
Second--The Country was wholeheartily behind Bush (both donkeys and elephants and the electorate). Bush said this terrorist war would last decades because of the hate of the people behind it; and they pass that hate on to their children. Our Countrymen have short attention spans and horrible memories.
Third--As usual, the voice of those out of power was brought to the forefront and we are where we are today because of that dissension. Vietnam all over again; the appeasers and those who never see anything through have captured the faint of heart in our Country.
Fourth--it's only a matter of time until this Country fails as a great Country; all great Countries have failed before us. This failure comes from within and we are witnessing it's slow death.
Fifth--If you think Bush was in on a conspiracy before he ever took office, that begs an answer to "what if he didn't get elected".
Sixth--If Gore had been elected and 9-11 occurred, and surely it would have because they were already in our Country training. Both donkeys and elephants and the electorate would have supported Gore. And with the same problems that Bush has had to face, we either would still be haggling with Saddam under Gore or we would have invaded him like we did with Bush.
WE have a choice, either we defend ourselves or we don't.
All the other stuff about American involvement in the world is because the world has made us the referee. Being the referee we can either quit and let the horribles of the world gobble up the rest of the world and then eventually us, or we can stay in the game and maybe, just maybe, there is hope for the human race yet.
None of us have all the answers; and few have the lasting courage like Lincoln had.
"" I see and understand the lies the Mainstream Media feeds the people.""
me too.
I also see the lies on the Internet.
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Post by sometimeman on Aug 25, 2008 23:37:26 GMT -4
Bubba, I figure the president is the front man for the bankers and big business. I think these folks wanted to secure middle east oil. I think 911 was the trigger to get the American People on board. Pearl Harbor was the trigger to get the American People to back WWII. This is a fact Bubba research it. Bubba I figure we been lied to. Research it. If I'm wrong let me know. The truth is all that is important. # Tracking the 19 Hijackers - web of lies Still Alive11 Alleged Pilot, Fayez Rashid Ahmed Hassan Al Qadi Banihammad ... How could he praise uninvolved living people12 for the 9/11 hijackings? ... www.welfarestate.com/911/ - 22k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this # At Least 7 of the 9/11 Hijackers are Still Alive How can the 9/11 Commission be taken seriously when they refer to alive .... Several major news organizations wrongly identified at least four pilots of ... whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/hijackers.html - 26k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this # 9-11 Research: Resurrected Hijackers Al-Nami said: "I'm still alive, as you can see. ... 'Suicide hijacker' is an airline pilot alive and well in Jeddah, Independent.co.uk, 9/17/01 [cached] ...
911research.wtc7.net/disinfo/deceptions/identities.html - 29k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this # Many 9-11 "Hijackers" are Still Alive. For the past 10 months I have been based in Tunis with 22 other pilots learning to fly an Airbus .... Numerous 9/11 "hijackers" are, in fact, still alive. ... guardian.150m.com/september-eleven/hijackers-alive.htm - 22k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this # MANY 9-11 "HIJACKERS" ARE STILL ALIVE MANY 9-11 "HIJACKERS" ARE STILL ALIVE. The world's media has reported that many of the so-called hijackers "fingered" by the FBI are still alive. ... 911review.org/Wget/members.fortunecity.com/911/september-eleven/hijackers-alive.htm - 31k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this # Bumble Planes But I can't verify the alleged hijackers are still alive, so let's move on. Can't verify it so forget it. It would be easy for the 9-11 planners to collect ... www.911-strike.com/strange_theory_of_the_bumble_pla.htm - 38k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this # Zionist Commando Daniel Lewin Orchestrated The 9-11 Terrorist Attacks Like some of the 7 hijackers known to be still alive, Atta also had his passport ... Dekkers said that his course does not qualify pilots to fly jumbo jets. ... www.ilaam.net/Sept11/ZionistDid911.html - 28k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this # 9/11 Terrorist Attacks on the U.S. - Internet Rumors, etc. (p. 2) Source: World Trade Center Myth that Kept Hope Alive, The Telegraph ... After the terrorist attacks, the pilot of United Flight 564 gave a rousing speech to ... urbanlegends.about.com/library/blxterror2.htm - 27k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this # 9-11 "Hijackers" Identified by FBI: Seven Are Alive and Well "Adnan Bukhari is still in Florida" - CNN Correction Amer Kamfar ".... that a suspect sought by the FBI, Amer Kamfar, was in fact an alive pilot in Arabia. ... www.the7thfire.com/Politics%20and%20History/9-11/9-11_hijackers_still_alive.htm - 98k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this # MANY OF THE 9-11 "HIJACKERS" ARE STILL ALIVE. : Thunderbay IMC For the past 10 months I have been based in Tunis with 22 other pilots learning ..... all the 9/11 hijackers still alive wthin united state and will trying ... thunderbay.indymedia.org/news/2002/12/2373_comment.php - 70k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this |
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