RESEARCH MATERIAL FOR APE

[sometimeman]

Is Sunday Sacred and Holy?
62 Candid Confessions

1 Candid Confessions of the Anglican Church!

"Where are we told in Scripture that we are to keep the first day at all? We are commanded to keep the seventh; but we are nowhere commanded to keep the first day...The reason why we keep the first day of the week holy instead of the seventh is for the same reason that we observe many other things. Not because the Bible , but because the church has enjoined it." Isaac Williams, D. D., Plain Sermons on the Catechism, Vol.1, pp 334-336

2 Candid Confessions of the Anglican Church!

"We have made the change from the seventh day to the first day, from Saturday to Sunday, on the authority of one holy Catholic Church." Bishop Seymour, Why We Keep Sunday, Article 12

3 Candid Confessions of the Church of Christ!

"I do not believe that the Lord's day came in the room (place) of the Jewish Sabbath, or that the Sabbath was changed from the seventh to the first day, for this plain reason, where there is no testimony, there can be no faith. Now there is no testimony in all the Oracles that the Sabbath was changed, or that the Lord's day came in the room (place) of it." Quote from the founder of the Church of Christ, Alexander Campbell, in the Washington Reporter, Oct. 8, 1821.

4 Candid Confessions of the Church of Christ!

"There is no direct scriptural authority for designating the first day the Lord's day." Dr. D. H. Lucas, Christian Oracle, Jan. 23, 1890.

5 Candid Confessions of the Church of Christ!
"The seventh day was observed from Abraham's time, nay, from creation. The Jews identified their own history with the institution of the Sabbath day. They loved and venerated it as a patriarchal usage." "The evidence of Christianity" Page 302 Saint Louis: Christian Publishing co. 1906, Quoted from a debate between Robert Owen and Alexander Campbell (The founder of the Church of Christ), Saint Louis: Christian Publishing co. 1906.

6 Candid Confessions of the Church of Christ!

"But we do not find any direct command from God, or instruction from the risen Christ, or admonition from the early apostles, that the first day is to be substituted for the seventh day Sabbath." "Let us be clear on this point. Though to the Christian 'that day, the first day of the week' is the most memorable of all days ... there is no command or warrant in the New Testament for observing it as a holy day." "The Roman Church selected the first day of the week in honour of the resurrection of Christ. ..." Bible Standard, May, 1916, Auckland, New Zealand.

7 Candid Confessions of the Church of Christ!

"... If the fourth command is binding upon us Gentiles by all means keep it. But let those who demand a strict observance of the Sabbath remember that the seventh day is the ONLY Sabbath day commanded, and God never repealed that command. If you would keep the Sabbath, keep it; but Sunday is not the Sabbath. The argument of the 'Seventh-day Adventists' is on one point unassailable. It is the Seventh day not the first day that the command refers to." G. Alridge, Editor, The Bible Standard, April, 1916.

8 Candid Confessions of the Baptist Church!

"We believe that the law of God is the eternal and imperishable rule of His moral government." Baptist Church Manual

9 Candid Confessions of the Baptist Church!

"The first four commandments set forth man's obligations directly toward God...The fourth commandment sets forth God's claim on man's time and thought...Not one of the Ten Words (the 10 Commandments) is of merely racial significance...The Sabbath was established originally (long before Moses) in no special connection with the Hebrews, but as an institution for all mankind, in commemoration of God's rest after six days of creation. It was designed for all the descendants of Adam." Adult Quarterly, Southern Baptist Convention series, Aug. 15, 1937

10 Candid Confessions of the Baptist Church!

"There was and is a commandment to keep holy the Sabbath day, but that Sabbath was not Sunday. Earnestly desiring information on this subject, which I have studied for many years, I ask, where can the record of such a transaction be found? Not in the New Testament; absolutely not. There is no Scriptural evidence of the change of the Sabbath institution from the seventh to the first day of the week ... Of course, I quite well know that Sunday did come into use in early Christian history as a religious day. But what a pity that it comes branded with the mark of paganism and christened with the name of the sun god, when adopted and sanctioned by the papal apostasy, and bequeathed as a sacred legacy to Protestantism." " Dr. Edward T. Hiscox, author of The Baptist Manual in a paper read before New York ministers' conference held Nov. 13, 1893

11 Candid Confessions of the Congregationalist Church!

"The current notion that Christ and His apostles authoritatively substituted the first day for the seventh, is absolutely without authority in the New Testament." Dr. Lyman Abbott, Christian Union, Jan 19, 1882.

12 Candid Confessions of the Congregationalist Church!

"It must be confessed that there is no law in the New Testament concerning the first day (Sunday)." Buck's Theological Dictionary

13 Candid Confessions of the Congregationalist Church!

"It is clear that, however rigidly or devoutly we may spend Sunday, we are not keeping the Sabbath ... The Sabbath was founded on a specific divine command. We can plead no such command for the obligation to observe Sunday ... There is not a single sentence in the New Testament to suggest that we incur any penalty by violating the supposed sanctity of Sunday." Dr. Dale, The Ten Commandments, pp. 106, 107.

14 Candid Confessions of the Lutheran Church!

"I wonder exceedingly how it came to be imputed to me that I should reject the law of Ten Commandments ...Whosoever abrogates the law must of necessity abrogate sin also." Martin Luther, Spiritual Antichrist, pages 71, 72

15 Candid Confessions of the Lutheran Church!

"The observance of the Lord's Day (Sunday) is founded not on any command of God, but on the authority of the Church." Augsburg Confession of Faith.

16 Candid Confessions of the Lutheran Church!

"They (the Catholics) allege the Sabbath changed into Sunday, the Lord's Day, contrary to the Decalogue, as it appears, neither is there any example more boasted of than the changing of the Sabbath day. Great, they say, is the power and authority of the church, since it dispensed with one of the Ten Commandments." Martin Luther, Augsburg Confession of Faith, Article 28 par. 9.

17 Candid Confessions of the Lutheran Church!

"But they err in teaching that Sunday has taken the place of the Old Testament Sabbath and therefore must be kept as the seventh day had to be kept by the children of Israel. In other words, they insist that Sunday is the divinely appointed New Testament Sabbath, and so they endeavor to enforce the Sabbatical observance of Sunday by so-called blue laws... These churches err in their teaching, for Scripture has in no way ordained the first day of the week in place of the Sabbath. There is simply no law in the New Testament to that effect." John T. Mueller, Sabbath or Sunday?, Pages 15, 16.

18 Candid Confessions of the Methodist Church!

"This 'handwriting of ordinances' our Lord did blot out, take away, and nail to His cross. (Colossians 2;14). But the moral law contained in the Ten Commandments, and enforced by the prophets, He did not take away the moral law, (the Ten Commandments), stands on an entirely different foundation from the ceremonial or ritual law...Every part of this law must remain in force upon all mankind and in all ages." John Wesley, Sermons on Several Occasions, 2 vol, ed., Vol. 1, pages 221, 222

19 Candid Confessions of the Methodist Church!

"The Sabbath was made for MAN; not for the Hebrews, but for all men." E.O. Haven, Pillars of Truth, Page 88.

20 Candid Confessions of the Methodist Church!

"It is true that there is no positive command for infant baptism. Nor is there any for keeping holy the first day of the week. Many believe that Christ changed the Sabbath. But, from his own words, we see that he came for no such purpose. Those who believe that Jesus changed the Sabbath base it ONLY on a SUPPOSITION." -Amos Binney, "Theological Compendium" pp. 180-181

21 Candid Confessions of the Methodist Church!

"The Sabbath instituted in the beginning, and confirmed again and again by Moses and the prophets, has never been abrogated. A part of the moral law, not a jot or a tittle of its sanctity has been taken away." Bishops Pastoral.

22 Candid Confessions of the Moody Bible Institute!

"The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word 'remember' showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote the law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?" Dwight L. Moody, Weighed and Wanting, Page 47.

23 Candid Confessions of the Moody Bible Institute!

"When Christ was on earth He did nothing to set it (the Sabbath) aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place. 'The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.' It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was-in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age." Dwight L. Moody, Weighed and Wanting, Page 46

24 Candid Confessions of Presbyterian Church!

"The Sabbath is part of the Decalogue - The Ten commandments. This alone forever settles the question as to the perpetuity of the institution...Until therefore it can be shown that the whole moral law has been repealed, the Sabbath will stand... The teaching of Christ confirms the perpetuity of the Sabbath." T.C. Blake, D. D., Theology Condensed, Pages 474, 475.

25 Candid Confessions of Presbyterian Church!

"We must not imagine that the coming of Christ has freed us from the authority of the law; for it is the eternal rule of a devout and holy life, and must therefore be as unchangeable as the justice of God, which it embraced, is constant and uniform." John Calvin, Commentary on a Harmony of the Gospels, Volume 1, Page 277.

26 Candid Confessions of Presbyterian Church!

"For the permanency of the Sabbath, we might argue for its place in the Decalogue, where it stands enshrined among the moralities of a rectitude that is immutable and everlasting." Thomas Chalmers, D. D., Sermons, Volume 1, page 51

27 Candid Confessions of Presbyterian Church!

"The Christian Sabbath (Sunday) is not in the Scriptures, and was not by the primitive church called the Sabbath." Dwight's Theology, Vol. 14, p. 401.

28 Candid Confessions of Presbyterian Church!

"A further argument for the perpetuity of the Sabbath we have in Matthew 24:20, Pray ye that your flight be not in the winter neither on the Sabbath day. But the final destruction of Jerusalem was after the Christian dispensation was fully set up (AD 70). Yet it is plainly implied in these words of the Lord that even then Christians were bound to strict observation of the Sabbath." Works of Jonathon Edwards, (Presby.) Vol. 4, p. 621.

29 Candid Confessions of the Catholic Church!

"From this same Catholic Church you have accepted your Sunday, and that Sunday, as the Lord's day, she had handed down as a tradition; and the entire Protestant world has accepted it as tradition, for you have not an iota of Scripture to establish it. Therefore that which you have accepted as your rule of faith, inadequate as it of course it is, as well as your Sunday, you have accepted on the authority of the Roman Catholic Church." D. B. Ray, The Papal Controversy, 1892, page 179

30 Candid Confessions of the Catholic Church!

"I have repeatedly offered $1000 to anyone who can prove to me from the Bible alone that I am bound to keep Sunday holy. There is no such law in the Bible. It is a law of the holy Catholic Church alone. The Bible says, 'Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.' The Catholic Church says: 'No. By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day and command you to keep holy the first day of the week.' And lo! The entire civilized world bows down in a reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church. Priest Thomas Enright, CSSR, President of Redemptorist College, Kansas City, Missouri, in a lecture at Hartford, Kansas, and printed in the American Sentinel, June 1883, a New York Roman Catholic journal.

31 Candid Confessions of the Catholic Church!

"The Catholic Church for over one thousand years before the existence of a Protestant, by virtue of her Divine mission, changed the day [of worship] from Saturday to Sunday. ... The Christian Sabbath is therefore to this day the acknowledged offspring of the Catholic Church, as Spouse of the Holy Ghost, without a word of remonstrance from the Protestant world." Editorial, The Catholic Mirror (Baltimore), September 23, 1893.

32 Candid Confessions of the Catholic Church!

"You may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify." Cardinal Gibbons (for many years head of the Catholic Church in America), The Faith of Our Fathers (92d ed., rev.; Baltimore: John Murphy Company), p.89.

33 Candid Confessions of the Catholic Church!

"Reason and sense demand the acceptance of one or the other of these alternatives: either Protestantism and the keeping holy of Saturday or Catholicity and the keeping holy of Sunday. Compromise is impossible." James Cardinal Gibbons, Catholic Mirror, Dec. 23, 1893.

34 Candid Confessions of the Catholic Church!

"Nowhere in the Bible do we find that Christ or the Apostles ordered that the Sabbath be changed from Saturday to Sunday. We have the commandment of God given to Moses to keep holy the Sabbath Day, that is the 7th day of the week, Saturday. Today most Christians keep Sunday because it has been revealed to us by the [Catholic] Church outside the Bible." "To Tell You the Truth," The Catholic Virginian, 22 (October 3, 1947), 9.

35 Candid Confessions of the Catholic Church!

"The Divine institution of a day of rest from ordinary occupations and of religious worship, transferred by the authority of the [Catholic] Church from the Sabbath, the last day, to Sunday the first day of the week, ... is one of the most patent signs that we are a Christian people." James Cardinal Gibbons, The Cross and the Flag, Our Church and Country (New York: The Catholic Historical League of America, 1899), pp. 24, 25.

[sometimeman]

36 Candid Confessions of the Catholic Church!

where is your sloa scriptura?

"Sunday is founded, not on Scripture, but on tradition, and is distinctly a Catholic institution. As there is no Scripture for the transfer of the day of rest from the last to the first day of the week, Protestants ought to keep their Sabbath on Saturday and thus leave Catholics in full possession of Sunday." Catholic Record, Sept. 17, 1893

37 Candid Confessions of the Catholic Church!

"They (the Protestants) deem it their duty to keep the Sunday Holy. Why? Because the Catholic Church tells them to do so. They have no other reason... The observance of Sunday thus comes to be an ecclesiastical law entirely distinct from the divine law of Sabbath observance... The author of the Sunday law... is the Catholic Church." Ecclesiastical Review, Feb. 1914.

38 Candid Confessions of the Catholic Church!

"Q. Which is the Sabbath Day?

"A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.

"Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?

"A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday." Peter Guierman, The Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine (1957 ed.), p.50. Copyright 1930 by B. Herder Book Co., St.Louis.

39 Candid Confessions of the Catholic Church!

"Nowhere in the Bible is it stated that worship should be changed from Saturday to Sunday." Martin J. Scott, Things Catholics Are Asked About (New York: P. J. Kennedy & Sons) p. 136.

40 Candid Confessions of the Catholic Church!

"Q. Have you any other way of proving that the [Catholic] Church has power to institute festivals of precept?

"A. Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; ... she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority." Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism (3rd American ed., rev.; New York: T. W. Strong, late Edward Dunigan & Bro., 1876), p. 174.

41 Candid Confessions of the Catholic Church!

"But the Protestant says: How can I receive the teachings of an apostate Church? How, we ask, have you managed to receive her teachings all your life, in direct opposition to your recognized teacher, the Bible, on the Sabbath question?" The Christian Sabbath (2nd ed.; Baltimore: The Catholic Mirror, 1893), p. 29, 30.

42 Candid Confessions of the Catholic Church!

"If Protestants would follow the Bible, they should worship God on the Sabbath Day. In keeping Sunday they are following a law of the Catholic Church." Albert Smith (Chancellor of the Catholic Archdiocese of Baltimore), replying for the Cardinal in a letter of February 10, 1920.)

43 Candid Confessions of the Catholic Church!

"It was the Catholic Church which, by the authority of JESUS CHRIST, has transferred this [Sabbath] rest to the Sunday in remembrance of the resurrection of our Lord. Thus the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is an homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the [Catholic] Church." Louis Gaston de Segur, Plain Talk About The Protestantism of To-day (Boston: Patrick Donahoe, 1868), p. 225.

44 Candid Confessions of the Catholic Church!

"Protestantism, in discarding the authority of the [Catholic] Church, has no good reason for its Sunday theory, and ought, logically, to keep Saturday as the Sabbath. ..." John Gilmary Shae, "The Observance of Sunday and Civil Laws for Its Enforcement," The American Catholic Quarterly Review, 8 (January, 1883), 152.

45 Candid Confessions of the Catholic Church!

"The (Catholic) Church changed the observance of the Sabbath to Sunday by right of the divine, infallible authority given to her by her Founder, Jesus Christ. The Protestant, claiming the Bible to be the only guide of faith, has no warrant for observing Sunday. In this matter the Seventh Day Adventist is the only consistent Protestant." "The Question Box," The Catholic Universe Bulletin, 69 (August 14, 1942), 4.

46 Candid Confessions of the Catholic Church!

"The Israelite respects the authority of the Old Testament only, but the [Seventh-day] Adventist, who is a Christian, accepts the New Testament on the same ground as the Old, viz: an inspired record also. He finds that the Bible, his teacher, is consistent in both parts, that the Redeemer, during His mortal life never kept any other day than Saturday. The Gospels plainly evince to Him this fact; whilst, in the pages of the Acts of the Apostles, the Epistles and the Apocalypse, not the vestige of an act canceling the Saturday arrangement can be found." Editorial, The Catholic Mirror (Baltimore), September 2, 1893.

47 Candid Confessions of the Catholic Church!

"If the Bible is the only guide for the Christian, then the Seventh Day Adventist is right in observing the Saturday with the Jew." Bertrand L. Conway, The Question Box Answers (New York: The Columbus Press, 1910), p. 254.

48 Candid Confessions of the Catholic Church!

"If you follow the Bible alone there can be no question that you are obliged to keep Saturday holy, since that is the day especially prescribed by Almighty God to be kept holy to the Lord." F. G. Lentz, The Question Box (New York: Christian Press Association, 1900), p. 98.

49 Candid Confessions of the Catholic Church!

"The Sabbath was Saturday, not Sunday. The Church altered the observance of the Sabbath to the observance of Sunday. Protestants must be rather puzzled by the keeping of Sunday when God distinctly said, 'Keep holy the Sabbath Day.' The word Sunday does not come anywhere in the Bible, so, without knowing it they are obeying the authority of the Catholic Church." Canon Cafferata, The Catechism Explained, p. 89.

50 Candid Confessions of the Catholic Church!

Father Conway: "If the Bible is the only guide for the Christian then the Seventh-day Adventist is right in observing the Saturday with the Jew. But Catholics learn what to believe and do from the Catholic Church, which in Apostolic times made Sunday the day of rest. ... Is it not strange that those who make the Bible their only teacher should inconsistently follow in this matter the tradition of the Church." Question Box Answers, an official publication of the Catholic Church.

51 Candid Confessions of the Catholic Church!

Plain Talk: "The observance of Sunday by Protestants is an homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the (Catholic) Church." Plain Talk about Protestantism of Today, by Msgr. Segur (RC).

52 Candid Confessions of the Catholic Church!

John O'Brien, Ph.D., LL.D.: "But since Saturday, not Sunday, is specified in the Bible, isn't it curious that non-Catholics who profess to take their religion directly from the Bible, and not the Church, observe Sunday instead of Saturday? Yes of course, it is inconsistent; but this change was made about 15 centuries before Protestantism was born, and by that time the custom was universally observed. They have continued the custom, even though it rests upon the authority of the Catholic Church and not upon an explicit text in the Bible. That observance remains as a reminder of the Mother Church from which the non-Catholic sects broke away - like a boy running away from home but still carrying in his pocket a picture of his mother or a lock of her hair." Faith of Millions, pp. 543 and 544.

-----------"hurry home to momma, its almost sundown!"

53 Candid Confessions of the Catholic Church!

"Hence, the conclusion is inevitable; namely that of those who follow the Bible as their guide, the Israelites and the Seventh-day Adventists have the exclusive weight of evidence on their side, whilst the Biblical Protestant has not a word in self defense for his substitution of Sunday for Saturday." Catholic Mirror.

54 Candid Confessions of the Church of England!

"Many people think that Sunday is the Sabbath. But neither in the New Testament nor in the early church is there anything to suggest that we have any right to transfer the observance of the seventh day of the week to the first. The Sabbath was and is Saturday and not Sunday, and if it were binding on us then we should observe it on that day, and on no other." Rev. Lionel Beere, All-Saints Church, Ponsonby, N.Z. in Church and People, Sept. 1, 1947.

55 Candid Confessions of the Church of England!

"Nowhere in the Bible is it laid down that worship should be done on Sunday. Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. ...! That is Saturday." P. Carrington, Archbishop of Quebec, Oct. 27, 1949.

56 Candid Confessions of the Church of England!

"Where are we told in Scripture that we are to keep the first day at all? We are commanded to keep the Seventh; but we are nowhere commanded to keep the first day. The reason why we keep the first day holy instead of the seventh is for the same reason that we observe many things, not because the Bible, but because the Church, has enjoined them." Rev. Isaac Williams, Ser. on Catechism, p. 334.

57 Candid Confessions of the Church of England!

"The seventh day, the commandment says, is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God. No kind of arithmetic, no kind of almanac, can make seven equal one, nor the seventh mean the first, nor Saturday mean Sunday. ... The fact is that we are all Sabbath breakers, every one of us." Rev. Geo. Hodges.



58 Brethren
"With the views of the law and the Sabbath we once held ... and which are still held by perhaps the great majority of the most earnest Christians, we confess that we could not answer Adventists. What is more, neither before or since have I heard or read what would conclusively answer an Adventist in his Scriptural contention that the Seventh day is the Sabbath (Ex. 20:10). It is not 'one day in seven' as some put it, but 'the seventh day according to the commandment.' " Words of Truth and Grace, p. 281.

59 Salvation Army
Copy of an Affidavit by Louis Currow, Minister in Ballarat, Victoria, Australia: I, Louis Currow of Ballarat, do solemnly and sincerely declare THAT, I did hear the following statement made by General William Booth, the founder of the Salvation Army at an Officers' meeting in the City Temple, Bourke Street, Melbourne. VIZ. Friends, don't you know that we are not keeping the true Sabbath. Two other officers and myself took our stand for the Sabbath, also a lady sergeant major, that heard the statement from his lips. And I make this solemn declaration ... etc. Declared at Ballarat in the state of Victoria, 10th May, 1934, before me, (signed) F.A.Cooper, J.P.

60 ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITANNICA:

"It was Constantine the Great who first made a law for the proper observance of Sunday; who appointed it should be regularly celebrated throughout the Roman Empire." Article Sunday.

61 ENCYCLOPEDIA AMERICANA:

"Constantine the Great made a law for the whole empire (AD 321) that Sunday should be kept as a day of rest."

62 CHAMBERS ENCYCLOPEDIA:

"Unquestionably the first law, either ecclesiastical or civil, by which the Sabbatical observance of Sunday is known to have been ordained, is the Sabbatical edict of Constantine, AD 321." Art. Sunday.

[manape]

Thanks for going to so much trouble, sometimeman, but I really don't have time to read all your post. Do you put your trust in Jesus Christ? Are you a Christian? It is my prayer that you know
God. If the answer is yes, then that is all that matters. Here is my sola scripture for the Sabbath.

GOD doesn't care...just worship HIM on the day you choose.

Col. 2:16-17, "Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ."

The important thing is salvation through Jesus Christ. The rest of the stuff are rules, dogma, irrational, opinion and shadows. No one is to judge in regard to the Sabbath. I don't judge you. The Sabbath is defined as a shadow, the reality is Jesus. Jesus is our Sabbath 24/7.

I don't judge you for your conviction to worship on Saturday. Your argument is with GOD, not me. I have met with a group that worshiped on Saturday. If you want to go to church on Saturday, that's cool. I don't think God cares which day we rest or worship. We just need to rest from our labors. Give it a rest, sometimeman. It is my prayer that you truly know GOD.

[manape]

Oh, sometimeman, I forgot to tell you I'm not Protestant. I am not protesting anything or anyone, not even Catholics. I am a Christian. I believe the Bible alone is sufficient to show me THE WAY, THE TRUTH, and THE LIFE.

If someone else wants to argue with you, then that's fine. I'm through here. I have joy and peace. That is all that matters to me.

[manape]

Sometimeman, why do you hate Catholics?

[sometimeman]

I don't hate Catholics. I love truth.
I have a strong dislike for ignorance and arrogance.
Catholics think that while God is absent from the earth, he has left the Pope in charge. Most protestants act as if its true. World leaders grovel at the vatican for support.

The catholic chruch claims to have transferred the solemnity from the seventh day to the first. Ignorance supports this.

Dwight Eisenhower was president when the pledge of allegiance was changed by the lobbying efforts of the knights of Columbus to include the words "under God". This means we are subject to his Vicar! They want us to be subject to the Pope.

You know not what you worship Ape.

[manape]

Let me say sometimeman, I am praying for GOD's wisdom in this matter, not to convince you but that I shall not become a hindrance to the gospel of Jesus Christ.

I'm glad you don't hate Catholics. The Pastor at a local Baptist Church I grew up in said, "Catholics are of the devil." I will not go there anymore, because I could not take my Catholic friends to hear their TRUTH. My family does not understand this. The congregation on the local Baptist church prides themselves on running people off, not adding to the church. That is arrogance and ignorance.

[manape]

I'm sorry, sometimeman. You are not the only one who condemns me to hell. My own Baptist Church condemns me, but I don't care for I worship the TEMPLE of the LIVING GOD. I seldom attend any church on Saturday or Sunday. I don't even go to a church regularly. Enough is enough. God knows I have tried to find one. If God leads me I will attend one. For now, I go to the people, as Jesus did. I go where I can worship God in TRUTH. I don't go somewhere to be made to feel guilty. It is not the WAY of Jesus.

If you have a strong dislike for ignorance and arrogance, I do not. Your dislike for ignorance and arrogance is sending people to hell, just like in the multi-million dollar building where the people have gotten away from Jesus's teachings. The people down the street go hungry for TRUTH and they don't find it in the local CHURCH, because they are not fed there.

[manape]

People can change and TRUTH will set them free. If the Pope thinks he is in charge. That's his problem. It is NOT mine. I pray that God will set him free, also. Why don't you stop trying to fix problems you cannot fix and start concentrating on problems you can fix...helping to save a lost and dying world? God can do it without you, but he NEEDS YOU. That is why we were created.

The Pope is not GOD. I don't believe in the Pope. However, I do believe there are many God believing Catholics and I have known some. The others must hear the Gospel and the Protestants are not getting the job done. THEY ARE STILL protesting. They are too busy hiding from GOD in CHURCH!!! It saddens me to no end, sometimeman. Please, world wake up and smell the coffee. Discover joy and peace.

[manape]

I know who I worship. I worship the Living God. Define worship. Is it setting in a pew looking at the the backs of faceless people, singing three songs, hearing a Priest-Preacher, and a hand shake at the door when you leave? For some it is worship. They go to the local church to be seen. Is it TRUE worship? You decide. It is your religion; not mine.

I go to the people and meet them where they are. It can be at work or any were there are other Christians.

For me, there is something greater than the local temple. I seek a meaningful relationship with God and His people (the lost and saved). I don't judge those who gather at the Temple, nor do I judge the day. That is what the scripture tells me I should do.

[manape]

The building is not the temple. It is one of many meeting places where we meet with other Christians. Sorry sometimeman, I don't have time to explain to you so I will cut and past from...

www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/Sermons/ByDate/1997/1016_Worship_God/

By John Piper. © Desiring God. Website: desiringGod.org

Visit there if you want to. I haven't read it all but with this I agree:

"Something Greater than the Temple is Here"

Let me suggest a reason. I think the reason is found in the way Jesus treated worship in his life and teaching. His main statement is found in John 4:20-24. But before we look at that, consider a few other things he said. For example, his attitude to the Temple - the main place of Jewish worship - was not at all what the Jewish leaders thought it should be.

When he wove a whip and drove out the money changers, the reason he give is not for the sake of proper sacrifices but for the sake of prayer—in fact prayer for all the nations. "My house shall be called a house of prayer for all the nations" (Mark 11:17). In other words he focused attention away from the outward acts of Jewish sacrifices to the personal act of communion with God in prayer for all peoples.

Then he said two other things about the temple that pointed to a radically altered view of worship. He said, "Something greater than the Temple is here," referring to himself (Matthew 12:6), and he said, "Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up" (John 2:19). This attitude to the Temple not only got him killed (Mark 14:58; 15:29), but it also got Stephen killed (Acts 6:14). That's how important it was.

What Jesus was doing was identifying himself as the true Temple. "Something greater than the Temple is here." In himself he will fulfill everything the Temple stood for, especially the place where believers meet God. So here again he is perting attention away from worship as a localized thing with outward ritual to a personal, spiritual experience with himself at the center. Worship does not need a building, a priesthood and a sacrificial system. It needs the risen Jesus.

The risen Jesus is the Living God. He is truth.

I can't change the day of worship. It is a choice. I will worship the one who was present at the creation, THE LIVING GOD. He lives within me and my body is his temple.

[queenbee]

My take on the whole religion issue is this;

Everyone from Southern Baptist to Islam and all the between religions, thousands of them, all have the same goal in mind "A BETTER PLACE TO GO TO WHEN YOU DIE" the difference is they all have different way's to get there.

[manape]

TRUE, QB. There are many religions. It is their right to practice their religion, to worship, and govern themselves as they please. As long as they give me freedom from their religion, I am OK with that.
However, there are those who condemn you if you don't convert to their religion or point of view. This turn or burn religion is not my religion. Jesus taught a conversion of persuasion, not an I'm right and you are wrong dogma, so go to hell religion.

What I think for Christian denominations is if an individual gets the salvation thing right (accepts the forgiveness of GOD), according to the teachings of Jesus, then that's OK with me.

The problem that I have with modern "churches" is that they tell people they can be saved by accepting the free gift and they will be free from sin and judgement. Then they say, oh by the way, you have to conform to our little rules that don't mount to a hill of beans. Church flake arrogance and ignorance is sending people to hell.

What we need are people to minister to people, not minsters who want to argue and turn people away from the church of the LIVING GOD. Our job, as Christians, is to bring people to the saving knowledge of GOD, not condemning them tho HELL, as the modern day Pharisees take great pleasure in doing.

[manape]

Sometimeman, again I appreciate the research material. Here is a verse for you.

"You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. I will be found by you," declares the LORD. Jeremiah 29:13-14

[sometimeman]

Following the wrong God?

Is it possible to follow the wrong god? In a word, yes! There many examples in the bible but, we automatically think in our minds, “There is only one god”! So, if I’m following god, he’s gotta’ be the right one.

This thinking is not at all according to what is written in the bible. The bible says to “prove” the spirits. Think about this, and remember from the scripture where Christ was baptized by his cousin John the Baptist, the heavens were opened and the voice was heard, “this is my beloved son”.

Christ was caught away into the wilderness forty days, with nothing to eat, without food, fasting. At the end of the fast he was tempted by the Devil. You may remember Satan’s last ditch effort to tempt Christ, where Christ was shown the whole world and Satan tempted him again. Read about it:
“Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me”. KJV Matthew 4:8-9.

What was it Satan was going to give? “all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them”. Through the centuries, the Popes have sought, “the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them” but, just think in today’s terms, Hollywood fame, American Idol, Power ball Lotto Winner, The offer from Satan to Jesus was just name it, imagine it, dream it, It’s yours! And Satan’s price? What was it he wanted in return? Just worship me was what he said. You see, in order for Satan to be like the most high he must have the worship of others. For the most high has the worship of all the beings of the un-fallen worlds. These are the worlds, which have never succumbed to the wiles of the devil.

Satan claims this world as his and he desires the worship of people. Listen friend, there are some who worship him knowingly while millions up on millions of others do it in complete ignorance. They don’t know any better! He has claimed this world since Adam gave away dominion of the earth back in the book of Genesis. Satan has caused confusion and multiplicity. Confusion of men’s minds and multiplicity of churches. Churches are every where. Several in each town. Often there are one on each corner and scattered throughout the country side! There are Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian… here is God, he’s here, no here, its here, he’s over here I say! Do you think this plan is of God?



There are millions and millions of Islamic Arabs and others who follow a god they call “Allah”. Friday is their holy day. BUT! this is NOT my God, nor is their holy day, actually holy. Friend the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord.

The Bible, and all of history teach the fact, the Lord’s Day is the seventh day. The ovens of Hitler’s holocaust could not burn the Sabbath out of the Jewish race! The Lord’s day comes between the two false days and the Apostle Paul writes:
“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness.” Romans 6:16

How could you possibly think you are obeying God by going to church on a day not designated by God, by going on the first day of the week?

Friend if you think the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the God of this world then, your thinking is not in-line with what’s written in the bible. From you own bible, read where Christ referred to Satan as the prince of this world! Read where he says:
“Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me”. KJV John 14:30

Read where the Apostle Paul clearly recognized Satan as the god of this world. Paul says:
“In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them”. KJV 2 Corinthians 4:4

One more time, “Brethren I would not have you to be ignorant”. Just the fact that, a preacher is a preacher, doesn’t make them a representative of the God of Heaven, a representative of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The Apostle Paul writes to the Corinthians that Satan is an “angel of light” and he has “ministers”. Have you never read where Paul writes:
“For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. KJV 2 Corinthians 11:13-15.

You have to remember, there is true worship and there is false worship, all through out the bible and even today. In light of what the scriptures say about Satan’s ministers and in light of the fact that some churches are presently ordaining openly gay men as Bishops. And in light of the scandal of the sexual perversion so rampant throughout the Catholic Church, can’t you see the truth in this verse from 2 Corinthians? “Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works”.

To think about religion being hijacked by the “god of this world”, could almost be beyond your belief and could possibly be even beyond your ability to comprehend it.
You may suffer cognitive dissonance because; it is such a stupendous thought! It could be that, it just won’t fit inside your head. You just can’t get your mind around it. Oh! But listen friend, you have a helper. The Holy Spirit’s job is to fit it inside your head. He is to help you understand. Your job is to be honest, and to be willing. You have to be absolutely, perfectly honest! There can be no pretending. The scriptures say, God is a spirit and those who worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. That doesn’t leave any room for pretense. You must be perfectly honest. Oh! And when you are, then HE will.



But, the scriptures also say:
“Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and in thy name have cast out devils and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity”. KJV Matthew 7:22-23.