End of time?

[taylor]

This will probably be a post that bugs some people, but at least I have the guts to ask.

According to what most of us have been taught, the Book of Revelations describes the end of times for the earth and it's people. Many people throughout history have used this book to support their ideas and/or personal agendas that the end of time was in or to be in their time. Predictions have been made throughout history. Prophets, seer's, priest and preachers from the past have all said "The end is near."

In recent times, movies have been made, books have been written, and religious leaders from all faiths have been preaching that the things described in the Book of Revelations are describing our own time. Rumors fly that modern world leaders, from Osama Bin Laden to George W. Bush are the anti-Christ. 65 years ago, the anti-Christ was Hitler. In ancient Rome, it was Nero. Diseases of our time are said to be the part of the end of times plagues, just as the Black Plague was said to be in 1340's Europe.

On the other hand, there are those that feel the Bible is nothing more than a fictional novel written to either instill good values and character or to control the masses by the fear of eternal damnation.

Ok, we all know the Bible was written by man. The original books have been "translated" so many times over the years, that it makes you wonder what is or is not true. Most everyone has heard of the "forgotten" books, or apocrypha of the Bible. These books were left out why? There are so many discrepancies, so many unanswered questions, so many mysteries that simply can not be explained. How do we know that the Revelations we are reading today is what was actually written in the first place?

According to the Mayan calender, the end of time will be December 21, 2012. I do not understand their mathematics and have no idea how they arrived at this date. According to what I have read, it has to do with specific cycles, and their belief in the rebirth of the earth in specific cycles. The Mayan calender has accurately predicted other moments in time, including known, scientifically proven astrological occurrences, times of famine and times of prosperity. So, with them knowing these things so many thousands of years ago, will this ancient civilization again be proven correct with the date of 2012?

The I-Ching of Chinese origin has also shown the same date. As have many other ancient past prophets, from Nostradamus to Mother Shipton.

Astronomers and scientist have also recently discovered another interesting bit of information. On December 21, 2012, the Winter Solstice, there will be a once every 26,000 year astrological event. It seems the earth has a "wobble" on it's axis, and that date completes one revolution of the wobble. Also, the earth will be in perfect alignment with the center of the Milky Way galaxy, along with the planet Jupiter. How did the Mayans know about this when it has only been "discovered" recently? Will this alignment cause some type of gravitational force that will forever change the face of the planet? Will it cause the predicted end of time? Or will it simply be a time of change, the end of an era, a kind of rolling over and starting over of the Mayan calendar?

Is the Book of Revelations meant for our time? IS our end near? Does the Mayan calendar coincide with our Bible and predict the end of the earth, or just the beginning of new cycles?

[summerose]

I believe what Revelation says, just wish it could be easier to understand. As for the Mayans predicting the end of the world on December 21, 2012, only God knows when that will happen.

[sometimeman]

There is a sense of something big soon to happen.
I like to believe it will be the end of sin and sinners, the earth made new, the lion eating straw like a bullock, the wolf and the lamb lying down together.
The grass a living carpet with out sand spurs and nettels.
No more struggle to keep the power meter on the side of the house, no sickness, no bad days, happy healthy children restored to their loving mother's arms! No running out of time and growing old and feeble, every thing is good, good like it was in the beginning!

Even so come Lord

[soaks]

There's some interesting reading over at Wikipedia:

End Times prophecy and mythology are prevalent throughout our history and can be found in all religions:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End_of_Times

There's also an interesting explanation on the Maya Calendar:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_calendar

And a layman's view on the 2012-12-21 event here:
www.planetpapp.com/br21december2012/

It's a bit difficult to put much stock in these predictions, natural events have occurred on this planet so often that have brought life to the brink, but some form of life always bounces back to take center stage.

After watching various episodes of the Universe series on the History Channel it's difficult to give these predictions much credence when comparing the short time frame of our presence to the existence of the earth, our sun, the Milky Way, and the universe as a whole.

The time frame involved in what we have come to know as Creation is simply staggering and our myths help us try to get a handle on something that is really incomprehensible, especially within the short span of time we spend within this creation.

Just my 2-cents.

[sometimeman]

If I could choose for you I would. You know I can't. It is your choice.

Go here. This will help:
www.bibleexplained.com/

It is a wonderful site. Has scriptural answers for all your questions.
Mark it. Put it in your favorites. Visit often. Educate yourself.
Make a wise choice. And, enjoy your journey!

[sometimeman]

This is the best 2012 site I found Here is part 1:
www.mondovista.com/endtime.html

Here is part 2:
www.mondovista.com/endtime2x.html

Read them. get the "hell" scared out of you and go back to:
www.bibleexplained.com/

Make friends with the one who woke you in your mother's womb. He is worthy of your trust.

[queenbee]

Taylor, I feel it's hard to know when the end of time is.

I have heard that heaven will be here on earth, I have heard that we will all rise up to the heavens. I have heard anti-Christ and 666 is currently on some S.S. checks.

It is so hard to pick and choose what is right and what is wrong and which is true.

People have asked me what if I am wrong, what if I die and there is no heaven? I ask them what if I am right and when you die there is a heaven?

I guess we need to strive and be the best we can be and live our lives according to our beliefs and do the best we can. When the end get's here we all know for sure.

As for the Mayans, folks back them had no idea about electronics, our God and things of the future. But they were pretty accurate in reading the heavens and the stars, so much so, that it is scary.

Sometimers I will look up the links and read those and see what I can make of it.

Guess we all had better learn to love and forgive more and ignore the rest.

[soaks]

Sometimeman,

I went to the first link (mondovista) you provided, seems pretty convincing on it's face, but then I turned to Google and did a search on

December 21, 2012 hoax debunk

which turned up more hits than I have time to fully explore.

I did check a few and the science doesn't seem to be there to support this. I'd have to put some real effort into researching this to fully support my gut feeling, but hey, believe whatever you want - everybody does anyway.

[sometimeman]

Yeah I kinda know what you mean, "To each his own"
Then there is this 1611 English phrase, "Whosoever will"

Ant it nice to choose!!
An't God good!!

[taylor]

Perhaps some of you may have gotten the wrong idea. I am not questioning my God, or my faith. I am not lost. My post was simply to invite discussion in general concerning the end of times, and all of the prophesies, regardless of where said prophecy comes from. There are so many legends, stories and myths in other cultures that coincide directly with our Bible - For instance, there are stories/legends of a great flood in many cultures, just as in our story of Noah.

A discussion is just that - a discussion. Nothing more. Nor is it an attack on any religion or any person's personal belief.

[sometimeman]

No Miss Taylor, every thing is alright. You are alright.

Miss "B" Miss Soaks Why don't ya'll get up a bible study? I might come if you'll let me! Ya'll spend a lot of time here. This is the absolute BEST bible study site on the web. It has a comments section and hyper-links to related concepts. It is like a Scoffeld Bible on steroids!

www.bibleexplained.com/

Now looky here, in the 24th Chapter of Matthew, Christ's disciples asked him about the signs of his coming and of the end of the world. Christ himself in verse 15 of Matthew chapter 24 tells his followers about the prophet Daniel.
Now why don't you just click that link above and start the most amazing research you'll will ever do! Daniel done some praying. An Angel told Daniel that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and rebuild Jerusalem to the coming of Messiah the prince would be...

You gotta understand Daniel had been carried away a prisoner of war into Babylon. Jerusalem had been sacked by Nebuchadnezzar.
You can read about Jerusalem being rebuilt in the book of Ezera. The commandment to restore and rebuild Jerusalem was given by King Artaxerxes in 457 B.C.

When you get your pencil and paper and do the math, the hair will stand up on the back of your neck!!!! Yes Sir God is real. This world an't no accident!!
Miss Taylor, that feeling you got is right. We done got down in the short rows of earths history

Make friends with the one who woke you in your mother's womb. He is worthy of your trust.

[AskTheWiseOldMan]

The world will not end on December 12 2012.

Ask a biblical scholar about revelation. The answer you get won't come close to what a country preacher will scare into you. Country preachers - and my mother is married to one - depend on members for church budgets whereas scholars are only interested in getting to the truth. Biblical scholars generally agree that the book of revelation dealt with times contemporaneous to its writings - namely the political climate of Roman dictatorship.

I agree with soaks. In the billions of years of Earth's existence, mankind has only been around a mere 100,000 years - and there were TWO species of man (cro-magnon and neanderthal) co-existing for nearly 8 times as long (80,000 years) as single-species modern man has existed (12,000 years).

Rather than superstitious fear or misunderstood biblical passages, the real facts support the prediction that Earth will be here billions of years after mankind (and whatever species succeeds us) has disappeared.

[soaks]

Jul 24, 2008 14:57:22 GMT -4 taylor said:

-snip-
My post was simply to invite discussion in general concerning the end of times, and all of the prophesies, regardless of where said prophecy comes from. There are so many legends, stories and myths in other cultures that coincide directly with our Bible - For instance, there are stories/legends of a great flood in many cultures, just as in our story of Noah.

A discussion is just that - a discussion. Nothing more. Nor is it an attack on any religion or any person's personal belief.

I hear you.

I hope that Sometimeman did not take my quip as an insult, it may have been a bit short and quipish, but the intention was merely to state a fact.

Taylor, Yes, I thought the End Time article at Wikipedia illustrated the pervasiveness of these myths and prophecies across religions and down through time (and you've got to wonder just what influences what, so much intermingling).

After doing a bit more digging I did come across this site Bad Astronomy and Universe Today which appears to approach these things from a scientific point of view and appears to have done a pretty good job of dealing with this Maya Calendar thing.

This post in particular appears to have compiled a rather extensive list of threads within that site dealing this question:

www.bautforum.com/archive/index.php/t-73492.html

It shouldn't take too long to look a few of the threads mentioned to begin to get the gist of things.

Also, at this same site I came across this post referring to Dr. Paul LaViolette who is referenced in the second (mondovista.com) link above:

www.bautforum.com/archive/index.php/t-13487.html

I haven't come across much else on this person, but I've only done a cursory search.

There have been many large scale events within human history (Cro-Magnon), a history that goes back 40-50,000 years and further, many natural events could have been the source of the flood and garden of eden stories (volcanoes, undersea earthquakes, meteorite strike in the ocean).

Am I arguing for a non-literalist interpretation, yup! Religion can't help but give way to science when it comes to explaining the natural world.

[sometimeman]

The world will never "end".
God did not form the world "in vain".
Howsome-ever now W.O.M.
The world will get the "hell" burnt out of it and December 21, 2012 might be when it happens?

And when the "hell" is burnt and we get our "glorious body", when "we which are alive and remain" are changed "in a moment in the twinkling of an eye" and are "caught up together to meet him in the clouds", brethren it doth not yet appear what we shall be but, when he shall appear "we shall be like him".

Now you see W.O.M. when that first easter morning, early while it was yet dark, they went to that tomb and bent down and looked in, that cloth that had been wound around his head, was laying by its self He was gone!!! He could come into the room even thought the door was shut. He ate fish. You could touch and feel him. But, now that 'ol boy with the back hoe lost this round. Hell couldn't hold him!

And It is written, I will be like him!!!!
Come on W.O.M. there is room for you.

[AskTheWiseOldMan]

Jul 24, 2008 18:00:51 GMT -4 sometimeman said:

The world will never "end".
God did not form the world "in vain".
Howsome-ever now W.O.M.
The world will get the "hell" burnt out of it and December 21, 2012 might be when it happens?

And when the "hell" is burnt and we get our "glorious body", when "we which are alive and remain" are changed "in a moment in the twinkling of an eye" and are "caught up together to meet him in the clouds", brethren it doth not yet appear what we shall be but, when he shall appear "we shall be like him".

Now you see W.O.M. when that first easter morning, early while it was yet dark, they went to that tomb and bent down and looked in, that cloth that had been wound around his head, was laying by its self He was gone!!! He could come into the room even thought the door was shut. He ate fish. You could touch and feel him. But, now that 'ol boy with the back hoe lost this round. Hell couldn't hold him!

And It is written, I will be like him!!!!
Come on W.O.M. there is room for you.

I am quite certain that God doesn't want us to fall for superstitions and false claims. When I hear hoofbeats I think of horses not zebras.