Questions Ya'll Probably Won't Like

[summerose]

42usc1983 said:

summerose said:

Yes, the serial murderer will be just as entitled as you are to go to Heaven, if he has asked for forgiveness and accepted Christ as his Saviour.

Maybe thats true for murderers... but what about bankers?

HUH?

[sometimeman]

42USC1983 wrote, "Maybe thats true for murderers... but what about bankers?"

According to the scriptures, not impossible, just dam hard!

KJV Matthew 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

[manape]

Sometimeman, I try to keep the law. I follow the teachings of Jesus (God) and I depend on his blood sacrafice, not mine.

Christianity is not about do's and do not's and man-made religion. It is not about control. It is not about going the church on Saturday or Sunday. It is about a relationship with Jesus 24/7. His church is his kingdom. The Bible is all I need to understand God's plan to deliver us from sin and to join His church.

Someape wrote:
Do we not follow the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob?
Ape: YES

Somemanape: Was not this the God that was made flesh and dwelt among us?
Ape: YES

Somemanape: Is salvation not of the Jews?
Ape: Salvation is through Christ who was a in the body of a Jew when he was on earth.

Sometimemanape: Ape, do you accuse God of changing? Do you accuse God of having two plans of salvation? One for "his" people and another for the Gentiles.

Man Ape: NO, there is only one perfect-blood sacrifice and this sacrafice is for all Christians.

The Bible teaches that Christ offered His sacrifice once for all (Hebrews 7:27, 9:28, 10:10).

Hebrews 7:27 (New International Version)
27 Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.

Hebrews 7:28 (New International Version)
28 For the law appoints as high priests men who are weak; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.

Hebrews 10:10 (New International Version)
10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Sometimemanape: Why as Gentiles, Ape, do we insist on having "first day" worship?
Man Ape: I don't know. Differences in opinion, perhaps. What does it have to do with salvation? I don't have to go to a meeting house to worship God. It is just one of the places. We can worship when we want to and where we want to.

[manape]

Sometimeman, can you give me the short version of what you are saying?

Of course sin is a bad thing. We must turn from sin and accept the blood sacrifice of the Savior. Through His blood sacrafice, our sins are forgiven, past, present and future. GOD sees our sin no more.

[sometimeman]

Do we not follow the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob?
Answered Ape: YES

Saying and doing are two different things Ape. How could one tell which God you follow? Have you never read:

"Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you". KJV Exodus 31:13

[manape]

Sometimeman, THE GOD who took on the life of a manape over 2000 years ago is the same GOD who created the universe. For he said, I and the Father are ONE.

[manape]

"Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you". KJV Exodus 31:13

I know the Lord that doth sanctify me. What your are talking about are rituals that are signs of our acceptance of THE GOD of the universe. Baptism and worship of God on a special day of the week is a sign that we know GOD. The calendar is a device to mark the days of the week and the days of the year. It is an invention of man Before Christ (B. C.) and After Death (A. D.). If you choose Saturday and I choose Sunday as a sign, what does it matter? It is still legalism. Sola Scripture is still all I need for salvation through Christ. You can argue with Catholics and Protestants if you need to. All who are truly Christians (Christ followers) have the same knowledge of the saving grace or Sola Scripture. The rest is just leagalism, dogma, and excess baggage that Christians carry around. No one said Christianity would be easy, but is it as difficult as you are making it, Sometimer?

[manape]

Sometimeman, carm.com explains it best:

Why do we worship on Sunday
instead of Saturday?

In the Old Testament, God stated, "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you," (Exodus 20:8-10, NASB). It was the custom of the Jews to come together on the Sabbath, which is Saturday, cease work, and worship God. Jesus went to the synagogue on Saturday to teach (Matt. 12:9, John 18:20) as did the apostle Paul (Acts 17:2; 18:4; ). So, if in the Old Testament we are commanded to keep the Sabbath and in the New Testament we see Jews, Jesus, and the apostles doing the same thing, then why do we worship on Sunday?
First of all, of the 10 commandments listed in Exodus 20:1-17, only 9 of them were reinstituted by in the New Testament: (six in Matt. 19:18, murder, adultery, stealing, false witness, honor parents, and worshiping God; Rom. 13:9, coveting. Worshiping God properly covers the first three commandments) The one that was not reaffirmed was the one about the Sabbath. Instead, Jesus said that He is the Lord of the Sabbath (Matt. 12:8).
In creation God rested on the seventh day. But, since God is all powerful, He doesn’t get tired. He doesn’t need to take a break and rest. So, why did does it say that He rested? The reason is simple: Mark 2:27 says, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." In other words, God established the Sabbath as a rest for His people, not because He needed a break, but because we are mortal and need a time of rest, of focus on God. In this, our spirits and bodies are both renewed.
The Old Testament system of Law required keeping the Sabbath as part of the overall moral, legal, and sacrificial system by which the Jewish people satisfied God’s requirements for behavior, government, and forgiveness of sins. The Sabbath was part of the Law in that sense. In order to "remain" in favor with God, you had to also keep the Sabbath. If it was not kept, then the person was in sin and would often be punished (Ezekiel 18:4; Rom. 6:23; Deut. 13:1-9; Num. 35:31; Lev. 20:2, etc.).
But with Jesus’ atonement, we no longer are required to keep the Law. We are not under Law, but grace (Rom. 6:14-15). The Sabbath is fulfilled in Jesus. He is our rest. We are not under obligation, by Law, to keep it and this goes for the Sabbath as well. It is not a requirement that we keep the Sabbath. If it were, then we would still be under the Law. But, we are not.

[manape]

God dose not confuse us about the Sabath...it is a religion that confuses us. GOD has no religion.

Evidence of the Change of Days can be Seen in the NT

Within the New Testament is ample evidence that the seventh day Sabbath is no longer a requirement.

Rom. 14:5-6, "One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God."
The entire section of Rom. 14:1-12 is worth careful study. Nevertheless, the instructions here are that individuals must be convinced in their own minds about which day they observe for the Lord. If the seventh day Sabbath were a requirement, then the choice would not be mans’, but God’s.

Col. 2:16-17, "Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ."
Notice here that time sequence mentioned. A festival is yearly. A new moon is monthly. A Sabbath is weekly. No one is to judge in regard to this. The Sabbath is defined as a shadow, the reality is Jesus. Jesus is our Sabbath.

Acts 20:7, "And on the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to depart the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight."
The first day of the week is Sunday and this is the day the people gathered. This passage can easily be seen as the church meeting on Sunday. It has two important church functions within it: breaking bread (communion) and a message (preaching). Additionally, Luke did not use the Jewish system of counting days: sundown to sundown. He used the Roman system: midnight to midnight. This is a subtle point that shows the Jewish Sabbath system was not the one utilized by Luke.

1 Cor. 16:1-2, "Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I directed the churches of Galatia, so do you also. 2 On the first day of every week let each one of you put aside and save, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come."
Notice here that Paul is directing the churches to meet on the first day of each week and put money aside. It would seem that this is tithing. So, the instructed time for the church to meet is Sunday. Is this an official worship day set up by the church? You decide.

Rev. 1:10-11, "I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like the sound of a trumpet, 11saying, "Write in a book what you see, and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea."
The New Bible Dictionary says regarding the term, ‘The Lord’s Day’ in Revelation 1:10: "This is the first extant occurrence in Christian literature of heµ kyriakeµ heµmera. The adjectival construction suggests that it was a formal designation of the church’s worship day. As such it certainly appears early in the 2nd century (Ignatius, Epistle to the Magnesians, 1. 67).
In many churches today, the term "The Lord’s Day" is used to designate Sunday, the same as it was in the second century.

I hope this is evidence enough to show you that the Bible does not require that we worship on Saturday. If anything, we have the freedom (Rom. 14:1-12) to worship on the day that we believe we should. And, we no one should judge us in regard to the day we keep. We are free in Christ, not under law (Rom. 6:14).

[sometimeman]

Mister Ape-

The stuff you present is standard "fluff" with the exception of you being God and in your case I suppose thats so! Having said that, I just don't believe you got what it takes to come back from death all by your self. In other words, regarding your life you have the power to lay it down but I believe you would find it impossible to take it up again.

[manape]

Sometimeman, I don't want to hinder others by placing religious obstacles in their paths (Mark 11:52). Lord knows, we have enough priest and preachers to do that.

My jounery is a path of simplicity. It appears that which is often referred to as church (a meeting place owned by a congergation) is the only church. They are right and all others are wrong! As long as it doesn't hurt anyone and it doesn't take away from the scripture concening salvation, I'm OK with it. Who cares if they argue. For me and my house, I will follow Christ not men.

We were bought with too high a price to be slaves of men, their dogma, their rituals, and their religion...I have no religion, except sola scripture. I still claim to be Baptist, because most Baptist are sola scripture, but I am a Christian. My denomination is just only one subset of the Church of God's kingdom.

The Baptist say the Catholics are of the devil. The Seventh Day Advantist say Saturday is the day of worship. The truth is that the church is the people of His Kindom and we should worship Him every day of the week. We should focus on what we have in common, the Savior/Creator. All the rest of the legalism, rituals don't matter to Creator-GOD.

A person's decision concerning sabbath observance probably hinges on the question of how we view the entire Old Testament. If all of it is still binding on us, then so is the sabbath. If there are parts that are no longer binding because they were directed specifically to the Jewish nation, or because they were for ritual purposes, then the sabbath is open for discussion.

No matter what position a person takes, it is important to recognize that God has a claim to all of my time. When I give Him one day of the week, it reminds me that He owns all seven!

This is not to suggest that the law of Moses was not divinely inspired, nor that it was somehow imperfect and in need of repair from its very origins. Rather, it was perfectly matched to a particular group of people (the descendents of Israel) during a certain period of time. It was intended to service their needs and their needs alone. By the time of Christ, a new phase of God’s plan was coming to fruition.

Sometimeman, there have always been those, however, who were unable to accept that God leads us forwards, not backwards. During Jesus’ own ministry, he frequently came into conflict with the Pharisees, a group of highly educated, highly devout and highly inflexible religious scholars, the fundamentalists of their day. Rather than praise their piety, he accused them of neglecting the “weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy and faith,” and of zealously seeking converts only to make them “double the child of hell” as themselves (Matthew 23:15, 23). Furthermore, he accused those who studied of the law of “stealing” the key of knowledge, saying not only that they had failed to enter the service of the Lord themselves, but also that they had hindered others by placing religious obstacles in their paths (Mark 11:52). I will not hinder you or anyone else. Your religion is your choice.

[sometimeman]

“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness.” Romans 6:16


22 Candid Confessions of the Moody Bible Institute!

"The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word 'remember' showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote the law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?" Dwight L. Moody, Weighed and Wanting, Page 47.

23 Candid Confessions of the Moody Bible Institute!

"When Christ was on earth He did nothing to set it (the Sabbath) aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place. 'The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.' It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was-in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age." Dwight L. Moody, Weighed and Wanting, Page 46

[manape]

sometimeman said:

Mister Ape-

The stuff you present is standard "fluff" with the exception of you being God and in your case I suppose thats so! Having said that, I just don't believe you got what it takes to come back from death all by your self. In other words, regarding your life you have the power to lay it down but I believe you would find it impossible to take it up again.

I know GOD and I AM not HIM, Mr. sometimeman. Yes, only God has power over life and death. I'm not sure how you get the idea that I am GOD. I have never said I am God. I have said we create our own happness, pain, and sadness.

Such fuzzy logic, as yours, I have never heard before. Do you just enjoy pulling my leg or are you so blind you cannot see?

[manape]

Sometimeman, Jesus Christ is my sabbath. The standard fluff is what scripture says. It does not matter what day of the week, we meet. We should worship GOD 24/7.

[manape]

Sometimeman, you will be surprised to find Christians who worship on Sunday or Saturday in heaven. If you believe Saturday is the day of rest and worship, then do it. I won't try to stop you. It is your religious freedom to be the church any day of the week. You have my permission and your argument is just as valid as mine. God told me he didn't care in His Scripture. I guess he just hasn't gotten around to telling you yet.